|
 |
|
|
|
|
Slovio Discussion: |
Slovio Besed: |
 LINK TO LIVE FORUM LINK TO
SLOVAK FORUM =
free discussion=========================== =========================== =========================== 2008-12-29: I spent about two hours earlier today writing a response to a poster at the blognik.com site who wrote: Pacxemu "Sviatakis" ? Pacxemu net "Sviataki"?" I have recently received several private emails from various "other Slavic ConLangers", who seem very upset over what they view as my "defection" to SLOVIO. And so my two-hour-writing response to "Sviataki," included my much broader commentary on the overall "altercation" among the "ConLangers" over the point and goal of a Slavic ConLang. Alas, I failed to "save" my commentary as I was writing it, and unfortunately lost it! I will rewrite it ... so "stay tuned." My point in noting this is to share with you what I have been privately but consistently suggestiong to various ConLangers: 1. that I do not view SLOVIO as the sine qua non lingua franca of Slavic speakers; 2. that for me SLOVIO is a tool to enable communication both between and among Slavic speakers and non-Slavic speakers alike, so to allow them to more easily conduct business and social intercourse; 3. that I do not view SLOVIO as the new, replacement tongue of a new Slavic nation; 4. that, therefore, it is my choice to work within SLOVIO's successful arena, rather than to take the time to create a wholely new ConLang, WITH ONE EXCEPTION: 5. that there is flexibility within BASIC SLOVIO to allow different writers and speakers the ability to communicate their thoughts and expressions as they personally deem necessary; We have all heard the complaints about SLOVIO's use of non-Slavic constructions. These usually boil down to: (a) lack of 6 or more declensions (I actually read in the Slovianski Forum that someone wants the Aorist Tense!!); (b) non-Slavic words or word-roots; (c) formation of plural by using the letter "-s". And to the various ConLangers I have suggested that they consider using SLOVIO as the basic lingua franca of communication intercourse as noted #2 above; and that to allow for more a "comfortable" Slavic "feel" that they might consider using in addition to the Basic Slovio: A. alternative prounouns or spellings thereof - Jegoj, svoj, moj B. plural "-i" ....even with Historia > Histori C. alternative words - "bolsx" or "vecx" as well as "plus" In the long run, it will be the "Basic Slovio" and/or "the Common Usage" that will prevail. And because SLOVIO is far, far ahead of the other rummage of Slavic ConLangs, I am certain SLOVIO will prevail. (we have to get Mile's online dictionary up and running!!! ... if you need my help, please let me know) Finally, I have been privately suggesting to the ConLangers that if they wish to structure a Pan-Slavic alternative for the "New Slavija," then that is an excellent course to pursue. However, that that is independent of the purpose of SLOVIO imho. One such ConLanger - who have mentioned to you earlier on -- Andrej Moraszewski -- was very stunned by my suggestion...originally. However, he has warmed up to the idea (although he did choose to translate a portion of THE LITTLE PRINCE into his version of Hellerick's ROZUMIO (I will say, however, that his most current translation contains nearly 95% SLOVIO words -- and only the injection of a few DATIVE and GENITIVE declensions). Frankly, the Slovianski's seem to be so discordant in their efforts - with "new" ConLang grandchildren being born monthly. In short, my theory is to attract the nay-sayers to work within the most successful system. Respectfully, Steeven R. =========================== 2008-12-28: I have read ongoing controversy among the various "troops" about the current form of SLOVIO Adverbial Particples: Cxitabs knig pitil voda. - Preparing to read a book, drank water. Cxitats knig pitil voda. - While reading a book, drank water. Cxitals knig pitil voda. - Having read a book, drank water I personally do not have any "issue" with these current endings. However, in reviewing the archives of SLOVIO, I see that you have ocassionally modified the rules of Slovio for alternatives that perhaps might work equally or better in the overall Slovio schematic. In this regard, I did read an interesting suggestion that I found among the older Posts (#868) in the Yahoo Slovio Group by (former) member: vovanius2000@xxxxxx http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/SLOVIO/message/868 Because the word-form is an adverbial particple, Vovanius suggested that the letter "s" might be replaced by the adverb ending "-uo": Cxitabuo knig pitil voda. Cxitatuo knig pitil voda. Cxitaluo knig pitil voda. Steeven R. =========================== 7.3.2007. Truncated Words: Although the nice poem of the Letoju Zxen would suffer, I feel strongly that words like zxen, rib, or ruk are a horror... when we all know that it must be zxena, riba and ruka, etc. This also concerns the numerals: cxtir, din, des, dev, vos ... who will recognise these? And what is wrong with words of more than one syllable? As if slavic languages where not crammed full with multi-syllabic words! Volapuk of long-forgotten fame loved truncated words, too: NIM was the Volapuk word for "aNIMal". I don't see any need for such mutilations. Regarding numerals, I think that Roman Dushkins suggestions should be seriously considered. (Hermann Philipps) =========================== 4.3.2007: Reformed Slovio. Just a little idea of how to make look Slovio more regular (but somewhat natural in the same time). 1- The apostroph method is used instead of X-method: nas', tutc'as etc. 2- Words should be reconstructed to their original form whenever it's possible: z'ena etc. 3- All the endings accord to a simple scheme: noun: (the pure stem ending in a consonant, a, e, or o) noun, plural -(i)s noun, objective case -(j)u noun, objective case, plural -(j)us adjective -(i)j adjective, possessive -(i)voj adverb -(i)jo (i.e. adjective + -o) verb, infinitive/present -(i)t verb, future budet + verb verb, conditional bi + verb verb, imperative -(i)jte etc. 4- As you see all the endings/suffixes start with either (i) or (j). Their use is simple: you should add i when stem ends in a consonant (to avoid to consonants coming together: domis, z'enas), and you should add j after stems ending in a vowel (to avoid collision of two vowels: domu, z'enaju). 5- Note that: - 'objective case' ending is the one really existing in natural languages (and looks much better with plural ending); - possessive adjectives have ending of adjectives (and even possessive pronouns moj, tvojsvoj have adjective ending); - the adjective ending of zero-ending nouns is the one used three major Slavic languages for masculine nominative: -ij; 6- Example text: Novij mez'unarodnij Mova! C'o je Slovio? Slovio je novij mez'unarodnij mova ktor rozumet tristo milion ludis na celij zemla. Vi moz'et upotrebit Slovio dla govorenie so tristo milion ludis od Praga do Vladivostok; od Sankt-Peterburg c'rez Vars'ava do Varna; od Sredzemij More do Tihij Okean. Slovio imat prostij logikij gramatia i Slovio je idealij mova dla tutdenij ludis. Uc'ijte Slovio tutc'as! -- It doesn't look half as scary as the current version of Slovio. (I used word mova to distinguish word for "language" from word for "tongue" (and to have verb like movat -- "to speak (a language)"); other option was to use govor). Example 2 (from Flag of Lithuania): Flag Litvaju je horizontij trikolor z'oltij, zelenij i c'ervenij kolorus. Flag bil prinanij 20 marcu 1989 posle vihodinie Litvaju iz Sovetij Sojuz. Pred toj prinanie, flag bil upotrebinij od 1918 do 1940, gda Litva bil okupacianij jedin-posle-inij Nacistij Germaniaju i Sovetij Sojuzu. Od 1945 do 1989 sovetij litvaj flag bil skladanij iz obic'ij dla sovetij republikas c'ervenij flag so ime republikaju, a posle hvila to bil zmeninij do vis'e poznalij flag so belij i zelenij c'ertas u niz. Najvis'e nedavnij zmeninie flagu bil v 2004, gda delinie bokus bil zmeninij od 1:2 do 3:5 ... (Hellerick) =========================== 3.11.2006: I speak croatian. I cannot believe how understandable is Slovio to me. Marko. =========================== 27.01.2006. To Whom It May Concern: I am a student of the Russian language, and have found it very difficult to learn Russian. I have even spent several months in Russia, just trying to understand it. When I got back to the US, I was very frustrated, and did not know if I wanted to continue with Russian, but then I found Slovio, and it has made my life so much easier. I still study Russian, but as a shadow of Slovio. I find Slovio almost easier and more flowing than my native language of English. I can read a passage, and even if I do not know a word, have a complete understanding of the that passage. Slovio is amazing, and I would love to see it become a universal standard in Eastern Europe. I have also tried Slovio with some of my Russian friends, and although it sometimes takes them a second to understand me, they normally have no problem. This language is great! Thank You! "Ja lubijm Slovio!" (I love Slovio!), Mark Kyle Brem =========================== 07.01.2006. Question: Wouldn't it be easier if you would substitute the X after S, Z and C with an "H"? Answer: Thanks to your email and thanks to your suggestion. We have considered and considered this problem many times. Advantage of these combinations: cx, gx,sx and zx that these combinations are non-existent in major world languages. Therefore these combinations, even though unusual, don't create any conflicts. However: the combinations sh, zh and ch do create conflicts and confusion with many languages, including such languages like Polish, Czech, Slovak. Advantage of the current Slovio spelling is the fact that you can take almost any word from English, French, German and use it, unchanged, inside Slovio text, without creating confusion with Slovio words. I know that Russians learn the sh sz combinations in school, the way they are used in English, but I think that this is a mistake for Slavic languages. Why try to mimmick English, when English is the least regular, least phonetic language around? Reply: absolutely right. I am from Macedonia and it hurts me when i have to switch to english with a slavophone person. Some people could understand if they want but many just don't bother. Me and my friends were discussing that Slovio should be a nonmandatory course in late-middle and high school. Imagine the advantages of all slavophone studens learning Slovio earlier in age. And I am talking about this from economical, cultural and political aspects. You are doing a great job! Carry on. Martin Anastasovski =========================== 07.11.2005. Question: Why do you use such odd letter combinations as: cx, sx, zx and gx? Why don't you use instead: "ch, sh, zh, gh"? Answer: We have considered those combinations that you suggest:: "ch, sh, zh, gh" instead of "cx, sx, zx, gx" - but: they cause a lot of other problems. 1) They create conflicts with existing Polish, Czech, and other words, 2) They create conflicts with many existing English, French, Latin and German words and would lead to confusion. The combinations cx, sx, zx and gx are not found in any major existing language so they would not lead to any confusion and mix-ups of Slovio words with existing English and other words. The way we have it, i.e. using cx, sx, zx and gx, we can mix into Slovio text any existing English and othe words and avoid mix-ups and confusion. Try it. Zdrav. Sietmaister. =========================== 09.10.2005. Pozdrav! I found a sample of this "slovio" language at omniglot.com. I am intrigued by this idea! In my high school days (during the 1980's) I always dreamt of a common language for all Slavs to use, that would incorporate elements of all the slavic languages! This is brilliant! I am a native macedonian speaker and I speak bulgarian, as well (naturally!) and I was both surprised and delighted that the samples of the slovio language I found on this website were very intelligible for me and that the sentence structure almost has a macedonian/bulgarian flavor with its simplicity. Tthis is a superb idea! I would enjoy knowing much more about this subject - when? how? who? I would definitely welcome an email from you! Blagodarijm i pozdrav, Peter Repovski (repovski  infinity.net)=========================== 14.9.2005. SUGGESTION: I have got some suggestions for Slovio grammar to be easier for more people. As you know, many people cannot make a distinction between an adjective and an adverb. That's why Slovio has got the universal -esk ending. That's right. However, that shouldn't be all. For example, the Chinese language doesn't make a distinction between verb tenses. For Chinese people it's simply not important when the action happened / happens / will happen. The tense may be determined from the context or marked by an adverb but it usually isn't needed. That's why I think that already existing verb tenses (present, past, future) should exist for people who are accustomed to marking a tense, but the language shouldn't make people to mark tense when they are unfamiliar with this grammatical feature. As an example of a non-tense language I mentioned Chinese because China borders with Russia and that's why many Chinese people are expected to learn Slovio. Why not make it easier for them? That's why I suggest creating a "neutral verb tense". In Slovio, it's forms should be understandable for the Slavs and thus similar to (but different from) already existing forms of present tense. It could be done like this: LONG FORMS: ja ez idi-d, ti ez idi-d, ... SHORT FORMS: ja idi-d, ti idi-d, ... WITHOUT PRONOUNS: idi-m, idi-sx, (to/on/ona/ono) idi-jd, idi-dme, idi-de, idi-ut As you can see, I replaced the "t" in the basic form idi-t by similar "d". In the without-pronoun forms, I simply left out the tense-marking sound (-bu-, -j-, -l-). This only didn't work in the third person singular (because idi-d would be the same and thus confusable with the basic form), that's why I inserted the "j" from the present tense. The neutral verb tense can be implemented by other endings, this was only my suggestion. But I think that Slovio definitely should have a way how not to express the tense. Japanese language doesn't make a distinction between singular and plural nouns. For Japanese people it's simply not important about how many things they speak. When needed, the number can be marked by a numeral or determined form the context. As Japan is geographically quite close to Russia, many Japanese people could learn Slovio and we should make it easier for them. I suggest creating a "neutral number of noun". As it is non-Slavic grammatical feature, it should be done by some exotic, non-Slavic ending. For me it seems ideal to do it by the -(i)s ending and to start form plural by some of the endings I have already suggested [-(n)i, -(s)i, -(t)i]. Thus "knig" = "(one) book", "knigi" = "(more than one) books", "knigis" = "book or books (no matter if one ore more)". This solution has got three advantages: 1) The plural would be more Slavic. 2) The Japanese (and many others) could use neutral number of nouns. 3) Older Slovio texts (which used -(i)s ending for the plural) would still be perfectly understandable. Thus, the main danger of all language reforms (that older texts become unusable) would be left out. This is only a suggestion, the neutral number can have another ending and the change of plural ending isn't necessary. However, a way how not to express the number should exist. Gabriel Svoboda =========================== 12.9.2005. Q: Wouldn't it be better and easier to understand if the object/direction endings of -(u)f and -(i)fs were replaced with -(u)m and -(i)ms? A: We don't know. We will have to try it and test is. We hope it doesn't create any confusion or conflicts. =========================== 20.08.2005: CASES: As far as I know, cases don't exist in Slovio. But how to express simple case relations which are common in all Slavic languages? For example dative: "I give book to father." > "Darijm knig (om?) otec." Or instrumental: "Father writes book with pen." > "Otec pisat knig (om?) pero." "Book is written by father." > "Knig es pisatju (om?) otec." I think that a simple description of how common Slavic cases (nominative, genitive, dative, accusative, vocative, locative, instrumental) are expressed in Slovio could by very useful in the Grammar. Nominative and vocative are expressed by simple form of the noun, genitive maybe by the "-voi" suffix, accusative optionally by the -(u)f ending, locative by various prepositions depending on the meaning. What about dative and instrumental? Thank you for your answer. Gabriel Svoboda ANSWER: In normal sentence structure subject comes before object and do change si necessary. However in the sentence "I give book to father." there is implied direction from me to father and thus we can say either "Darijm knig om otec." or "Darijm knig otecuf." The suffix "-(u)f denotes either object or direction. The sentence "Father writes book with pen." would be more exact if we used and translated this more precise version of the same thing: "Father writes book using pen." Thus the translation would come as: "Otec pisajt knig upotrebits pero." The authorship of the book is best translated using "ot". Thus "Book is written by father." could be translated as "Knig es pisalju ot otec." If you wanted to say "Book is being written by father." then the translation would be "Knig es pisatju ot otec." Notice the simple difference of one letter, "t" for present and "l" for past: "pisatju" and "pisalju". =========================== 19.08.2005: SLOVIO TEXTBOOK: > I'm wondering if there are any, ANY printed material I can Hope to POSSIBLY get to facilitate learning Slovio? I've been trying to, more or less, re-learn Polish (Re-learn because I haven't spoken sentences in it since I was 6, I'm 28 now!) I've been having some difficulty with this and I want to know if Slovio might be easier. I barely got through French, even after living in Montreal! If you could direct me to a book or BERLITZ office that might be able to help me, I would appreciate it. if not, please suggest a way to, maybe, better utilise your website to learn Slovio. Thank you! Elizabeth B. ANSWER: Thanks for your letter. I am also a Canadian citizen with Slavic roots, and we have decided to create Slovio also for those people who have lost their roots through assimilation. Yes, Slovio is much easier to learn than Polish, and you can write in on any PC. I don't really know, yet, the best way to learn it. Perhaps click on the texts, and click on the news and read some texts, and if you have questions click on grammar etc. Sooner or later we will have a simple textbook, but it's not ready yet. Greetings, Webmaster. =========================== 16.08.2005: SLOVIO PLURAL: You wrote: "If someone finds a better solution without making the language and the grammar more complicated or irregular, they should tell us." So I tell you. :-) ... I understand your arguments. It's better to have regular grammar with -(i)s plural than an irregular grammar. Yes, the -(i)s ending isn't completely bad. But I think that Slovio could have something better. As you know, the -i ending is the most understandable plural marker for Slavic speakers. For the best understandability, Slovio could form plural this way: If the noun ends in a consonant, add -i. If the noun ends in a vowel, replace it with the -i. Thus: knig > knigi, svadba > svadbi, vino > vini. I know that it would be a bad solution. The root has to remain unchanged with no vowel changes. But today's Slovio's solution of plural also isn't too good. Every Slav understands -i as a plural ending. So I think that every Slovio plural should contain the -i. Today, every plural contains -s. But only some plurals contain also -i-: knig > knigis, svadba > svadbas, vino > vinos. I think that an average Slav doesn't understand that knigis, svadbas and vinos are in plural. I suggest this solution: If the word ends in a consonant, for plural add -i. If the word ends in a vowel, for plural add some consonant + -i. I don't know what consonant it should be. Maybe "n", "s" or "t" - so the plural ending would be -(n)i, -(s)i or -(t)i. I think that knigi, svadbani/svadbasi/svadbati and vinoni/vinosi/vinoti are much better understandable than knigis, svadbas and vinos. (Of course, you should choose only one consonant, not use all these three!) The same could be done with the accusative ending. The most common Slavic accusative ending is -u. But today, not all accusatives contain the -u-: knig > kniguf, svadba > svadbaf, vino > vinof. As we know, the most understandable knigu, svadbu, vinu is unacceptable, but we could simply use knigu, svadbafu/svadbanu/svadbatu and vinofu/vinonu/vinotu - ending -(f)u, -(n)u or -(t)u. / An alternative solution for the plural could be adding no consonant: knigi, svadbai, vinoi with the pronunciation [knigi, svadbaj, vinoj]. / Another alternative solution would be the -i/-u ending for words ending in a consonant and the -s/-f ending for words ending in a vowel: knig + knigi + knigu, svadba + svadbas + svadbaf, vino + vinos + vinof. Thus, the words ending in a consonant would have an understandable plural+accusative. The words ending in a vowel would have a not-understandable plural+accusative. But in today's Slovio, both words ending in a consonant and words ending in a vowel have a not-understandable plural+accusative. Gabriel Svoboda ANSWER: Thanks for your creative suggestion. We know... there are so many possible ways but which one is really the best? Perhaps time will show... Thanks again and keep up the good work and sharp thinking!! =========================== 12.08.2005: VERB DEFICIENCY: Esperanto failed - not because it was simple. It was more than that. Esperanto was so simplistic that it was incapable of enabling a person to say simply what they could say in many natural languages. Slovio is about to make the same kind of mistake. All Slavic languages (and many other languages also) have verbs which clearly identify perfect and imperfect aspects of verbs. This is so fundamental in Slavic languages, that to leave it out will doom Slovio to failure. This is the first thing that you need to remedy. Your pan-slavic language is pretty simple in concept. You may be following Esperanto too closely. Why not be more Slavic and make the plural of nouns end in -i. Kind regards, Keith M. ANSWER: Thanks for your constructive comments. Please send us several examples of sentences which you think Slovio does not handle properly. We will check it out and try to translate it. We had hoped we had that problem solved, but if not, then you are absolutely right, that it must be solved. Thanks again and we are looking forward to your input. =========================== 29.07-2005. SLOVIO COPYRIGHT QUESTIONS: To some people the question of Slovio copyright is a bit confusing. Essentially Slovio is a language to be used by anyone who wants to use it, and thus it is copyright-free for users. The main reason there is a copyright notice is to keep the further development of Slovio focused and concentrated. We wanted to prevent fragmentation of the effort to further develop and improve this language by irresponsible "language inventors" who simply steal what they can from Slovio and create "their own" language and thus confuse and fragment the whole effort. We feel that any effort to create an OPEN-SOURCE Slavic encyclopedia using this language, for example on Wikipedia, the free Encyclopedia, doesn't affect this effort, since it keeps the language development focused, therefore such effort to use and promote this universal language and communication have our full support and permission. Any use for writing books or encyclopedias in Slovio is definitely copyright-free. To sum it up, essentially Slovio is OPEN CONTENT and the copyright notice only attempts to prevent fragmentation of this linguistic effort and to prevent the creation of competing copy-cat languages which simply copy Slovio and create another "language" and confuse and fragment our effort. So books, songs, poetry, textbooks or encyclopedias written using the Slovio language are the sole property of the writer/translator. Should someone want to write more detailed "for-profit" dictionaries then we would ask for a small royalty to help us support the further development and streamlining of the language. Any encyclopedia, or any book written in Slovio would be definitely exempt from any royalties. Should you have any further questions please contact us. =========================== 24.07-2005. QUESTION: I am sorry to write in English again :) I'll try really hard that my next post is in Slovio! Anyway, my question is: If a verb in present tense is following a pronoun, should it be conjugated or not, or is both acceptable? For example, should it be: "Gdef ti putovajsx?" or "Gdef ti putovat?" From example texts I read, the first one should be right, but "special" verbs make a clear distinction between using and not using pronouns, so I wanted to make sure. Thanks! Dejan ANSWER: If you use a pronoun you don't have to conjugate the following verb. But since the duplication, that is the use of a pronoun in combination with a conjugated verb, doesn't appear to create any confusion, it may be also acceptable. In fact it appears that this duplication can be used to add clarity or importance to the statement. =========================== 01.07.2005. QUESTION: Why Slovio uses the ending -is to create plural? Why it doesn't simply use the ending -i the way it is done in most Slavic languages. ANSWER: It is true that the ending -i is the most common way to create plural in Slavic languages, and it is also clear that the ending -s normally doesn't exist in Slavic languages for the creation of the plural. But, by using the simple ending -i we would have too many words where in plural we would lose the meaning of the word, and we could no longer have a simple 100% regular grammar. We would have to start creating many exceptions and irregularities, the way most Slavic languages have irregular words and an irregular formation of the plural. The ending -is does not exist only in English but in many other languages, including Spanish, French etc. and it is almost universally understood by Slavic speakers. It is a simple ending and enables Slovio to keep its simple 100% regular grammar. Maybe it is not perfect, but it appears to be the best solution to a very complex problem. If someone finds a better solution without making the language and the grammar more complicated or irregular, they should tell us. Thanks for your understanding. =========================== 25.6.2005: QUESTION: Is there any way to learn Slovio from french? Is there any way to learn to draw cyrillic letters by hand? Pascal ANSWER: 1) There are many ways of learning Slovio. Let me show you one way where you can learn hundreds or even thousands of words without almost any effort: Go to Slovio.com and download the dictionary "d-main.zip". There you will find thousands of words which are similar or even equal to your language. So go ahead, explore it, and have fantasy! And participate in our project! good luck or in Slovio dla uspeh! 2) You can write Slovio in cyrillic or in latin letters. For a non- iliterat person there is no problem to write cyrillic by hand, cyrillic and latin hand writing are very similiar. So almost no trainig requiered. Slava! =========================== 26.5.2005: Die Hochdeutsche Sprache wurde uber Jahrhunderte von Buchdruckern, Gelehrten, Kirchen und Burokraten aus den hochdeutschen Dialekten entwickelt wurden. Es ist also tatsachlich eine real existierende Deutschhilfssprache. Das schone, faszinierende an Slovio ist, meiner Ansicht nach, dass es einen ahnlichen Weg geht wie die "Deutschhilfssprache", jedoch mit mindestens zwei gravierenden Unterschieden: 1. die Geschwindigkeit der Vereinheitlichung ist enorm, 2. die enorme Vereinfachung der Grammatik ist ein Segen fur alle. Pozdravenie. Eugeniusx =========================== 15.5.2005: Czytam uwaznie wszystko o Slovio i musze stwierdzic, ze zupelnie bezwiednie sam probowalem utworzyc wspolny jezyk dla Slovian bazujac na Polskim i Czeskim. Nie jestem lingwista wiec moje proby nie sa profesjonalne jednak mam pewne spostrzezenia. W internetowej sieci wytowrzyly sie mikrospolecznosci. Przewodze jednej z takich spolecznosci. Poniewaz skupiaja sie tutaj ludzie nie tylko z polski ale i polonia z zagranicy stworzylismy jezyk uproszczony w pisowni bez znakow narodowych. Czesciowo sa zgodne z rozwiazaniem w Slovio. Jednak nam bardziej zalezalo na mozliwosci zapisu polskich i czeskich znakow narodowych przy uzyciu alfabety lacinskiego stad nieco odmienna koncepcja. w naszej pisowni "j" stalo sie znakiem zmiekczajacym ( w slovio to jest obecnie "q" ) TAB-A [wymowa/speling] - PL - SLOVIO - SLR (SLR = Solardyjski) [c' - soft c] - c' - cq ? - cj [n' - soft n] - n' - nq ? - nj [s' - soft s] - s' - sq ? - sj [z' - soft z] - z' - zq ? - zj sam znak j (jak w slowie "canyon") zapisywany w SLR jest TAB-B j = ii znaki narodowe sa podwajane TAB-C [wymowa/speling] - PL - SLOVIO - SLR [o? - nosowe o / o by the nose] - a; - ?? - aa [e? - nosowe e / e by the nose] - e; - ?? - ee [? - "w" in "white"] - ? - ?? - ll [ u* - u rounded] - o - ?? - oo [z - twarde z / hard z] - z. - zx - zz podawjane znaki prowadza do problemow w pisowni np slowie "Anna" dlatego powtarzajace sie znaki (nie znakinarodowe) poprzedzamy apostrofem przyklad: TAB-D PL - SLR wanna - wa'na Anna - A'na oddac (oddac') - o'dacj (c' - cj) zgloski zlozone z dwoch znakow zapisujemy uzywajac "?h": TAB-E PL/ CZ (czech republic) - SLOVIO - SLR sz - sx - sh cz - cx - ch dz - dx ? - dh s^ (soft sz - czech rep.) - shj c^ (soft cz - czech rep.) - chj dz' (soft dz - poland) - dhj (jezyk solardyjski jest uzywany od okolo roku i obecnie preferowany jest zapis "dj") dz. (hard dz - polad/ >|< - russia) - dzz (podobnie jak wyzej obecnie zapisujemy to " gj") z powodu problemu dzwieku "h" i "ch" szczegolnie w Polsce w solardyjskim zapisujemy TAB-F PL - SLOVIO - SLR ch - ?? - kh solardyjski zaklada tworzenie wyrazow od orginalow - tak jak Slovio - wiec niektore znaki zachowalismy: TAB-G LATIN - PL - SLOVIO - SLR [wymowa/speling] v - = - v ? - v x - = - ?? - x [ks] q - = - ?? - q [ku] Pisze o tym dlatego, ze w zadnym jezyku slowianskim nie uzywa sie np "x" i jedyne podobienstwo jest w alfabetach "cyrylicy". "sh" "ch" dh" - to wymagalproblem np ENGLISH [wymowa/speling] - PL [wymowa/speling] - CZ [wymowa/speling] China [czaina] - Chiny [hiny] - C^na ? [czina] Chicago [szikago] - Chicago [czikago] - ?? [szikago] "ch" jako "cz" bardziej odpowiada wymowie zarowno germanskiej jak i slowianskiej. Chcialbym zrezygnowac z tworzenia jezyka solardyjskiego i w mikrospoleczenstwie uzywac Slovio. Prosze wiec o uwagi czy powyzsze przemyslenia nie mozna zastosowac rowniez w Slovio przynajmniej w jakiejs czesci. Wykaz znakow narodowych publikujemy tutaj: http://www.solardia.ush.pl/norma/index.php?a=231 Prosilbym o odpowiedz, bo niezaleznie od opinii Slovio sprobujemy wprowadzic w mikrospolecznosciach co pozwoli sprawic go jako zywy jezyk. czekam na odpowiedz. Morfeusz. =========================== 26.5.2005: Weiterhin sollte aber Slovio ja dem Konzepte nach auch eine Welthilfssprache, ahnlich dem Esperanto sein. Also nicht "nur" fur Slawen. Dies bietet sich wegen der einfachen Grammatik an. Au?erdem: Wenn jeman keine slawischen Sprachen spricht, aber in mehreren slawischen Landern beruflich oder studienma?ig zu tun hat oder Urlaub machen will, jedoch (einstweilen) nicht die Zeit findet, alle (oder auch nur eine) Sprache zu erlernen, so bietet gerade das Slovio eine gute Alternative, beziehungsweise auch fur spater einen guten Einstieg. =========================== 22.5.2005: Zdrav Eugeniusx. Blagodarijm dla tvoi email. Pred hvila ja zmenil format slov-kniguf vof CSV. Ja bilbi velm scxastju esli ti mozxbi pomocijt so dalkjusx razvitie jazikaf Slovio. Potrebijm konstruktju kritikenie ot Polakuo gvoritsju ludis takak ti. Zdravijm te i dovidenie! Siet-maister. =========================== 22.5.2005: Zdrav Slovio! Prosijm zmenijte vasx slov-knig "d-main.txt" vof CSF-format. CSV-format slovkniguf mozxbi nams pomocit upotrebit vasx slov-knig plus produktivuo. Mezxin Slovio es velm zabavju proekt. Esperantio i inju jazikas oglosili zxe es "Welthilfssprache" no oni ne es; na primer Esperantio es smes razlicxju Ind-Europju jazikafs. Vasx sposob es fantazju: perv "sodinit" Slaviansk jazikafs. Bravo! Eugeniusx. =========================== 12.4.2005: Zdrav Dacenko. Blagodarime za tvoi email. Vo bu-vrem mi bu delat tozx kirilikju strankas, no tut-vremuo ne imame dostacx dengi i dostacx ludis dla perebukvanie. Zdrav i do videnie! Здрав Даценко. Благодариме за твои емаил. Во бу-врем ми бу делат тож кириликйу странкас, но тут-времуо не имаме достач денги и достач лудис дла перебуквание. Здрав и до видение! =========================== 12.4.2005: Здравствуйте, info. Слово, то ест важне добре дело. Але я ебай латиница. Ест ли можно робит добру транслитерацию? Кирилица е азбука многи словяне. Ми не естu словяне? То не факт. Але сробите сайт на кириллица , але транслитерация. Бо так это важний предметис. Молимо вас)))) С уважением, Dacenko (dacenko unitedbakers.ru)=========================== 24.3.2005: Recently came across your web-site and found it very interesting. My question is - does 'Slovio' instruction only exist on the web-site or are there books and tapes available as well ? Look forward to hearing back from you, Jake Walsh (Ireland) (jakewalsh2004 yahoo.co.uk)=========================== 27.2.2005: Yes, I can understand good deal of Slovio, although I believe complication is created by giving too many options with the verbs conjugations. For instance "ja bu idit" I understand perfectly, on the other hand short version "ja idib" and without the pronouns "idibujm" I find difficult to understand and it seems over complicated as well. Similarly present tense of "ja es idit" is overdone as just "ja idit" is sufficient. As far as the verbs infinitives are concern, it would be better to standardize, for instance make them all or the most of them ending in "ti" as in "iditi" (to go) etc. Hope this is helpful. Regards, Don Zanetic (zaneticds iprimus.com.au)=========================== 12.2.2005: thank you for your positive and constructive suggestions. After a lot of consideration we have decided to use the cx, sx, zx ... combinations JUST because they don't exist in any major languages, and to avoid confusion between Slovio words and existing words in those other languages. To use "h" instead of "x" would create an incredible confusion for Slavic speakers - and for many non slavic speakers too. You suggestion that inclusion of non-slavic words make it look a little bit like english....? Well english has almost 80% words borrowed from various foreign languages. Slovio has less than 10% of internationally used words, which exist in many other languages. It was best to use those internationally known words rather than to create odd new words. =========================== 12.2.2005: Dear Sir, I have just discovered this wonderful new Slav language called Slovio. I must say that I am pleasantly surprised that you have seen the need to create a unified language for all Slavs and for that I highly commend your hard work. I fully support your wish to see Slovic universally accepted as the new lingua franca for all the different Slav languages speakers. Here are some possibly helpful observations: There seem to be a utilization of a many non-Slav words; this makes the Slovio sound more like Sloglish. The sounds Cx Sx Gx and Zx could possibly be more universally accepted if written as Ch Sh Dh and Zh respectively. The sound Wx is not really necessary as it appear in fewer Slav words and where it does it could possibly be substituted by the sound Sh. Hope you see my comments in a positive light. Regards, Don. =========================== 27.1.2005: Zdrav, Ja es iz Slovakia. Ja bi chce ucxit Slovio, no nekto me dolzx pomocx.Nekto bi dolzx publikovat nekaju slovknig vo knigju form.Ono es velm problemju ucxit Slovio bez knigis edinju iz Internet specialo zagrancnikis iz neslavju sxtatis. Mi dolzxbi nesxto mislit, nekakju form poucxit inktoris kak bi naidobro bil ucxit tuktor jazika. Ja es mislit zxe najdobrju predmet bu kda vsekto bu predlozxit idea kak bi bil naiprinamju metod dla ucxinie jazika. Mozxo mi dolzx bi kooperativ so nekto kto imat redaktju mozxostis. Jany (1992 stonline.sk)=========================== 24.1.2005: Zdrav! 'za-ponm-it' ktor es 'forget' delajt smesxanie dla russianifs. Rusju 'zapomnit' znacxit 'keep in mind; remember' Ono bi bolsx dobruo zamenit 'za-pomn-it' na 'za-pamiat-it'(rus. zapamiatovat') So uvazxenie, Sergey Belitzky(Russia), (s.belitzky mail.ru)=========================== 4.1.2005: Dear Slovio, I just came across your website. I teach Russian and French at the University of Central Arkansas. I have also studied Polish, Serbian/Croation, Ukranian, Bulgarian, German, Turkish, and a few other languages. I am very interested in Slovio. I am just at the beginning stages of learning this wonderful language, but put me on your email and list of possible future publishers. I am very interested in contributing in any way that I can. Thank you! T.A.M., Assistant Professor, University of Central Arkansas =========================== 06.12.2004: Amazing! My name is Jim and I'm an American student. I've studied Russian for about six months now and just recently I discovered Slovio! Slovio is great. I'm a native English speaker and with just one semester of elementary Russian I can read Slovio! In fact, it's easier for me to understand than Russian. Great Job. To think that, with Slovio, I might be able communicate online or even in person with people from various Slavic speaking countries is very exciting. Keep up the good work. Jim (pandasuicide hotmail.com)=========================== 20.10.2004: Congratulations for Your constructed language Slovio ! As I do not know any slav language, although I know several other languages inclusive Esperanto, I just can say that it looks very smart and it seems easy to learn. Actually, I wanted to tell You that there is a great demand for learning slav languages in Western Europe, but the learners are often discouraged by the complexity of the grammar. Maybe, Slovio could be the key leading many people from Western Europe to overcome this obstacle. Do You intend to edit printed learnbooks ? In which languages ? It would be very interesting, for instance, to have a simple, cheap book, with a practical lexique of about 800-1200 words for english, french and german learners. Are You thinking about organizing learning sessions in Your University ? I apologize for bothering You with my questions, but I am very eager to learn more! Francois =========================== 8.10.2004, Dobrju utro, (=Good morning) excuse me for writing in English - I'm from Germany and I just discovered "Slovio" and your web site for the first time. I've only just started to learn Czech - never learned any Slavic language before, and I was really surprised at how much Slovio I can understand even now! So I'd just like to encourage you to keep up your useful work :-) Thank you again for creating this fascinating language, Best regards Astrid =========================== 15.08.2004 Question about -brju endings Hello. I am french and have just discover the Slovio language. I'm finding that the ending -ju is not easay to pronounce after double consonants like br-, pr- ... as in dobrju for example This word can't be pronounced as easely as the polish dobry should we say 'do-bri-oo' or 'dob-rioo' or 'do-broo' ? Thank you for your answer. Best regards. Pascal. <patzcatl yahoo.fr>Hi Pascal. I think the exact pronounciation is less crucial than you think, Slovio has a lot of redundance built in. So no matter which one of the pronounciations you use in spoken language, I think it should be understood. The reason we had to use the ending -ju was to make sure that there is NO CONFUSION in written language. And also because the ending -ju can be added equally well after a consonant or a vocal. Thanks for your input. =========================== 24.07.2004, I want to learn Slovio. Hello, I am very interested in learning Slovio, do you have any cassets, CDRom or CD to listen? I would like to buy. Regards, Anna, anna stone-sapphire.com=========================== Ja hce znat esli Slovio es dostatocx prostju tak vsektor slavian gvoritnik mozx ponimat vsesxto ili esli sxto-to tak slozxju tak oni net ponimat? Moi rodilju jazika es Skandinavju. Esli net imam slov v Slovio jazika ja upotrebim moi slov-knig vo Rusian jazika. Sxto es pravilnuo? Do videnie, Kjell Tore, nilkt risor.vgs.no=========================== 22.02.2004, Slovio textbook. Hello, I have an idea for creation of a Slovio textbook in English. The book will be written collaboratively online. It will be aimed at young people and it will be practical. If you think I should contact someone who could help or guide the project please e-mail me. Thanks. Regards, Krzysztof P. Jasiutowicz, living_english_structure go2.pl =========================== 22.02.2004, Front page mistake? Hello, I think I have spotted a spelling mistake on the front page of the Slovio website. At the top in the section with cyrillic transcription there is mistake in "razumijut". (I'm giving Latin version here). Regards. Krzysztof P. Jasiutowicz, living_english_structure go2.pl =========================== 21-02-2004 Zdravo. Moje imja est Ramir. Izvinjam sja, chto ne rekam po ladno Slovio, ibo Ja esm Ruskij, i ne znam Slovio. No ne hochu do Slavenski-rekajushi ljudi pisatj na anglijskom. Mne ochen ljuba zaduma o mezhdunarodnom slavjanskom jazike, i zhelam delat pomosh. Ja mozhem delatj dobrij ogljad(obraz) vashikh Veb Saitov, za darom. Esli Vi togo hoche, pisate na moj elektropochta: plvita mail.ru Zhelaju Vam
dobro.=========================== 09-02.2004 Andrew, andrew dprk.abelgratis.co.ukUdragju priatelis, I recently found your site and am hoping to learn Slovio. I already know Esperanto so the pronunciation and grammar are no problem. I have always been interested in the Slavic languages. So far I have been looking at the grammar and the example texts. However I discovered that the slovio yahoo group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/slovio/ has no posts since April 2003, and the slovio2 politics group has very few recent posts related specifically to the language. Please can you advise whether there are other groups or forums devoted to Slovio. Hope to hear from you soon. Hvala i do videnie.. Andrew =========================== 06.02.2004, Alain, alschultz airfrance.fr Hello, my name is Alain Schultz , i am french and began to learn your language ; i would like to know if you have a pen-pals' club with which i could find persons' contacts to write to in order for me to practice because without praticing there is no use of the language; thank you for your answer and help have a nice week end best regards, Alain =========================== 28.01.04 16:23:01 - Po Slovensky-Slovakia: Slovio je dobry zrozumitelny jazyk vsetkych Slovanov na svete.Keby to prijali vsetky Slovanske narody,tak by sa svet Slovanov stal jednoduchsim a lepsim.Ale co bude doteraz pouzivanymi jazykmi,ako slovencina? Je velmi tazke zaviest jazyk aj ked je to pre vsetkych Slovanov Slovio! Je to lepsi jazyk ako Slovencina a ovela jednoduchsi! Podla mna tento jazyk je po jazyku esperanto zatial najviac objektivny a moze byt zivy! Dufam,ze sa vyda aj literatura a vsetko v tomto jazyku.Zalezi na Slovanoch ci chcu mat jednotny jazyk,alebo nie!Svoj narod si budu moct podrzat aj bez svojho vlastneho jazyka. Tento jazyk by bol dobre vyucovat pre Madarov na Slovensku a pre ostatnych,ktory nie su Slovania,ale tiez by to mohol byt zaklad pre slovenske skoly,kde by sa lahsie vedelo komunikovat s ostatnymi Slovanmi. Prajem vela uspechov,a dufam ze to prinesie aj nove moznosti vo vyucovani jazyka! Moja otazka znie,kedy tento jazyk bol vymysleny? Roberto, amen real-net.sk=========================== 28.1.2004 Q: By learning Slovio what reading capabilities (of other Slavic languages) would arise? A: Providing you know all the different alphabets, the reading capabilities would be similar to a passive understanding of the spoken language, perhaps even higher. =========================== ot: Sietmaister, 28.1.2004, 12:30 I am not sure, which of the Slavic would be the easiest to understand for someone who speaks only Slovio. I think it depends more on the speaker than on the language. If the other speaker speaks slowly, and carefully, it would be much easier to understand than someone who doesn't take care in speaking and pronounciation. I think this factor could be more important than which language speaks the other speaker. Do videnie, Webmaster (sietmaister) =========================== ot: Stefan Fisahn, 28.01.2004, 12:01:12: Hi, thanks for your prompt answer! I agree to the compare to high-german and the diffulties to understand all the dialects for foreigners. So what can you concluse, with slovio knowledge - which slavic language would best understandable for me, russian? If only people understand me, but I can't understand them communication would stay hard. But on the other hand I would concluse, slovio could be a good bridge to native slovac languages - as for example interlingua for the roman languages. Esperanto, indeed is great, but only for communication to other Esperanto-speakers. regards, sf. ============================ ot: Siet-maister: When learning any language, the passive understanding is always easier than active speaking. So for example when I was learning german, in the beginnig I could understand 85 percent of what was being said, but say only about 30% of what I wanted to say. So if you learn Slovio you will be able to express yourself - which is always more difficult than passive listening and understanding. Same, if I learn high-German, I will be able express what I say, but will not necessarily understand Swiss or Austrian dialects. ============================= ot: Stefan Fisahn, 28.01.2004, 11:42:29: Hi, I read with great interest your description of slovio. Seems a well language project! After reading - I showed a slovio-text, to a russian, a polish and to a slovak, all three concerned, yes they can understand the messages. My tongue is german, I speak also english and esperanto, so no knowledge in slavic languages at all. If I now would learn slovio, everybody in the slavic world could understand me, but inverse, could I understand the people vom Prague until Wladiwostok, from Lodz to Belgrad? And.. could I even read the slavic newspapers? Thanks and regards from Germany, sf esef.net==================================================== panta.HA bigpond.com, 26.12.03 08:50:23 I would accept the delajut as a change, others were better like they were before. Regards, Panche ==================================================== cbbj sezampro.yu, 25.12.03 21:19:43 This is my prefered choice: delam, delasx, delajet, delamo, delate,dalajut Warmest greetings, Sasha, www.aleksandar-veljic.co.sr ==================================================== lmanasci otenet.gr, 25.12.03 I like these changes a lot. I hope you will adopt them and make them permanent. And what about adopting also "delajum", with a "u" between the j and the m ? Advantages : it could be the optimal compromise between the Russian-like "delaJU" and the Serbo-Croatian-like "delaM", and all other tendencies inbetween. BOTH Russians and the others would immediately guess what it means. Russians would understand, because it so much resembles their own "AJU or UJU or JU" first person ending , with just a small extra m at the end. And the others, too, would immediately recognize it, precisely BECAUSE of this final m. When I tested the tekstis you wrote on my Slav neighbors in Athens, some Russians had trouble understanding that TELEFONIM MOI BRAT (in the "Moi Den" tekst) was the first person of the singular. One of them even translated it as "my brother telephones (calls)". But I am sure she would immediately have understood TELEFONIJUM, and that the same TELEFONIJUM would also have remained 100% comprehensible to Serbs, Macedonians, Croats, etc, because it remains so much similar to their own "telefonim". L. ==================================================== natcas linkline.com, 25.12.03 15:51:38 delam = delajm ......Much better and more Slavic. delasx = delajsx ....Better. delatu = delajut ..... Ah, I was hoping for that one. Which of these changes do you find good, which ones not? All of them are excellent and I would cheer them on into the next dictionary. Nathaniel ==================================================== vitezslav email.si, 25.12.03 17:02:53:It's a big mess. Either use these abbreviated forms: delam, delasx, dela, delame, delate, delaju or use non-abbreviated forms: delaju, delajesx, delajet, delajem,delajete, delajut Everything else are curious deformations. ==================================================== Marek Bocanek mar55 post.sk, 26.12.03 13:06:44 How about in the 2nd person: "delaesx"? The other suggestions seem to be ok. Also delajut is a good choice. ==================================================== amen real-net.sk, 27.12.03 10:45:27 I am against this kind of complexity of language Slovio. I propose the following: ja delat, ti delat, on,ona,ono delat, mi delat, vi delat, oni delat This is much simpler than the proposed changes. Why are we creating a language when it is complicated? ==================================================== Andrey Rogachov, AndreyRogachov mail.ru, 28.12.03 17:32:47 Zdrav, drug! Ja dumam (dumajm) oba sposobis bu dobruo. No kak ty dumasx - ne nuzxit li "zamrozit" SLOVIO ne nektor vrem, dla mi mozx imat prezxivanie jegoi delanie. Tper jazika izmenenie est prebistruj! Dla uspeh! ==================================================== darkus yandex.ru, 30.12.03 10:21:39I think we have to do comparativistic analysis to define the best way to conjugate SLOVIO verbs. For this we have to choose several good verbs, which reflect the typical rules of Slavic languages, than create the tables of conjugation for these verbs. My proposal for verbs: TO BE, TO DO, TO GO, TO SEE, TO HAVE, TO HELP, TO TALK I can do this work, but I need your help, of course. Since, i'm Russian, I can conjugate these words in Russian. But other Slavic languages - here you have to help me. Please, write me the conjugation of these verbs in your languages for PRESENT; 1st, 2nd, 3rd persons for Singular and plural. For example (conjugation of "to be" and "to do" in Russian): TO BE: |
|
Slovio can be written also in cyrillic alphabet. For transliteration of Slovio texts into cyrillic please click this button. |
|
Slovio moxzuo pisat tozx vo kirilik. Dla perebukvanie Slovio tekstuf vo kirilikuf prosime klikijte tut knopka. |
